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Boost Controller and Gauge Questions

 
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Old 16 Apr 2003, 01:21 pm
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Location: Brunswick, Georgia, USA.
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Default Boost Controller and Gauge Questions

I have been reading all the posts on the Boost controller and Gauge installations, and will be attempting to do an install in my GT soon. I already have the Hallman ES, and a mechanical gauge on order.

Questions:

1. Does Autometer (or any vendor) offer a pillar pod that is color matched to the '03 GT interior?

2. Is every one using a gauge that reads both vacuum and boost?

3. What is the best point for the gauge to be connected to get accurate vacuum and boost readings?

4. Should the Hallman controller go between the boost source (cream connector) and solenoid, or between the solenoid and wastegate? (It seems that this may be a cause of the mid cruise error codes in the manual.)

5. Is an electrical boost gauge that much better than mechanical to justify the cost?

6. DC made the computer firmware deliberately "fault tolerant" to eliminate the need for gauge, and the possibility of the stock configuration to "overboost". With that in mind, will the contoller ever be able to produce consistent results, without the computer trying to over-ride them?

7. Has anyone come up with an explanation why the errors only seem to occur on the manual transmission GTs?

8. What is the best "pass through" location on the 5 speed GT for the wiring/hose from engine compartment?

I am sure there will be more questions. I have a CD of the service manual coming, and it should answer some of these questions.

The Boost Controller and Gauge issue seems to be a "Work in Progress", so it is sometimes good to keep a fresh thresd going to show the latest "refinements".





2003 Onyx Green PT-GT
K&N Drop-In Air Filter
Kenwood Sirius Satellite Radio System
Garmin Street Pilot III Color GPS
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Old 16 Apr 2003, 01:44 pm
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Location: Los Angeles, California, USA.
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I am in a similar situation.
Have:
Sun Guage Cage Universal dual guage pod
Autometer Mech Vac/Boost Guage
Cyberdyne Air/Fuel meter
-------------------------
What I know of so far:
Universal size (trim to fit) hose tee's and 11/32" hose found at pep boys.
Best Vac/Boost guage tube install location seems to be the back of the intake manifold near the firewall tee'd into the 11/32 hose found there.

------------------------
2003 PTCruiser GT
Mods:!Airbox silencers
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Old 16 Apr 2003, 03:13 pm
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Default

Quote:
quote:
I have been reading all the posts on the Boost controller and Gauge installations, and will be attempting to do an install in my GT soon. I already have the Hallman ES, and a mechanical gauge on order.

Questions:

1. Does Autometer (or any vendor) offer a pillar pod that is color matched to the '03 GT interior?Race&Street sells them in Taupe or Black. I'm painting the pass. side pillar black to match

2. Is every one using a gauge that reads both vacuum and boost? mine reads both

3. What is the best point for the gauge to be connected to get accurate vacuum and boost readings?the hose running from the brake booster to rear of intake manifold

4. Should the Hallman controller go between the boost source (cream connector) and solenoid, or between the solenoid and wastegate? (It seems that this may be a cause of the mid cruise error codes in the manual.)

5. Is an electrical boost gauge that much better than mechanical to justify the cost?

6. DC made the computer firmware deliberately "fault tolerant" to eliminate the need for gauge, and the possibility of the stock configuration to "overboost". With that in mind, will the contoller ever be able to produce consistent results, without the computer trying to over-ride them?

7. Has anyone come up with an explanation why the errors only seem to occur on the manual transmission GTs?the code has popped up on a GT autostick also

8. What is the best "pass through" location on the 5 speed GT for the wiring/hose from engine compartment?there is a grommet where the hood latch cable goes through the firewall

I am sure there will be more questions. I have a CD of the service manual coming, and it should answer some of these questions.

The Boost Controller and Gauge issue seems to be a "Work in Progress", so it is sometimes good to keep a fresh thresd going to show the latest "refinements".

WELCOME!

ps- don't take my word for these answers 'cause i'm a newbie to boost!





2003 Onyx Green PT-GT
K&N Drop-In Air Filter
Kenwood Sirius Satellite Radio System
Garmin Street Pilot III Color GPS
Kevin & Donna's Elec Blue GT

Pictures of our PT GT

http://www.dreamcruisers.org/index/Page_1x.html


Edited by - ourptgt on 04/16/2003 14:14:23
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Old 18 Apr 2003, 02:49 pm
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I know there was a previous thread where someone gave specific SKU numbers for fittings, available at Home Depot for making the "Tee" connection for the Boost Gauge. I looked at the fittings at Home Depot this morning, until I was Cross-Eyed, and still didn't find any solution. I finally got a 3/8" Tee, that will allow 1/4 hose to be inserted in the inside of one of the barbed appendages (believe it or not, it is a goof fit and no leaks).

After looking at the pass through options, and the heat from the engine compartment, I have decided against the 1/4" hose, so it is back to the proverbial drawing board.

Can anyone point to a link to the thread that discussed making up the connectors from Home Depot part numbers? I have spent a few hours (on more than one occaision) with the search engine here, at the PTCC and PT-Enthusiasts forum, and can't find it.

BTW, the 5 speed uses the plate that others have referenced as a point to make a pass through portal for the Clutch Slave Cylinder.

If I can find an adaptor to go from the 11/32" ID vacuum hose going to the Brake Booster to the small (1/8" 3/16"?) hard tubing, I think I can put it through one of the existing grommets without muchg problem.


2003 Onyx Green PT-GT
K&N Drop-In Air Filter
Kenwood Sirius Satellite Radio System
Garmin Street Pilot III Color GPS
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Old 21 Apr 2003, 01:12 pm
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Just installed the guages this weekend.
Using the 11/32" "smog device hose", universal vac tee, 11/64" to 1/8" adapter, and some zip ties I tee'd into the back manifold port that has the 11/32" hose running to the brake booster.
Tube from autometer plugs right into 1/8" side of adapter elbow. Tubing is routed along the bottom of the hood seal and runs into the gromet for the hood release.
Readings
Idle cold in park: 14 vac
Idle warm in park: 18 vac
Idle in drive: 14 vac
Coasting in D around 35mph: 20vac
Coasting in D around 65mph: 24 - 28 vac
quick gradual 60-80% throttle: 5-8 psi
Mashed from a stop: 14 psi through 1st gear dropping down to 2 or 3 psi during shift and going back to 10 dropping fast to 8psi or lower depending on how the computer thinks it feels (ie inconsistent).

Stock setup hardly uses the turbo and mainly sees 5 psi at most around town if you play with the pedal just right. Even when you think you hear the turbo spoolin a little it just isn't making hardly any boost until you're really into the throttle. Shifts are where this car loses alot of boost, perhaps a BOV will fix this...
So far it seems the computer likes things WAY TOO conservative and only lets you see 14psi for a couple of seconds before dropping it.
Need to get the Hallman ES dialed in to get more readings.

------------------------
2003 PTCruiser GT
Mods:!Airbox silencers
K&N Filter(2153)
Autometer Pod - Boost/Vac and Volts
Hallman ES Boost Controller
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Old 21 Apr 2003, 08:01 pm
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Still kicking this around.... Here are some options for the Gauge install that are available from Advanced Auto Parts...

These should provide a straight-forward way to get the hard plastic tubing for the gauge into the 11/32" intake hose with very little plumbing.

3/8" X 3/8" X 1/4" Vacuum "T" Vacu-Tite!
Dorman 494-015 Package number 47345
Advance Auto Parts SKU 5019664 $1.99

1/8" X 7/32 Soft Vacuum Connector Vacu-Tite!
Dorman 494-103 Package number 47403
Advance Auto Parts SKU 5707153 $2.49



On the subject of the Hallman ES Controller, is this a Bleed hole here? If so, won't it send false readings to the stock wastegate solenoid, as well as slowing the reaction time?



Next point to ponder... If the Wastegate solenoid has 1/8" tubing feeding it, won't 1/4" hose give too much volume for accurate/fast reaction time to boost level changes. How about this setup?:





2003 Onyx Green PT-GT
K&N Drop-In Air Filter
Kenwood Sirius Satellite Radio System
Garmin Street Pilot III Color GPS
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Old 21 Apr 2003, 08:06 pm
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I am a little slow on the draw here. The setup looks similar to the one that Krieger was describing in the reply before my last post.

Also, good to see the vacuum and boost readings that you are experiencing. They will help us to start to set some benchmarks to confirm the installation is working...



2003 Onyx Green PT-GT
K&N Drop-In Air Filter
Kenwood Sirius Satellite Radio System
Garmin Street Pilot III Color GPS
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Old 21 Apr 2003, 10:21 pm
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I know there was a previous thread where someone gave specific SKU numbers for fittings, available at Home Depot for making the "Tee" connection for the Boost Gauge. I looked at the fittings at Home Depot this morning, until I was Cross-Eyed, and still didn't find any solution. I finally got a 3/8" Tee, that will allow 1/4 hose to be inserted in the inside of one of the barbed appendages (believe it or not, it is a goof fit and no leaks).

>> A gentleman in San Francisco did this. I also went looking, and bought the part he listed. The p/n he cited is for a 3-barb T, which doesn't do us any good. he doesn't have the correct p/n, and says after he went to HD to double-check, it is no longer available.

After looking at the pass through options, and the heat from the engine compartment, I have decided against the 1/4" hose, so it is back to the proverbial drawing board.

Can anyone point to a link to the thread that discussed making up the connectors from Home Depot part numbers? I have spent a few hours (on more than one occaision) with the search engine here, at the PTCC and PT-Enthusiasts forum, and can't find it.

>> I am using a 1/8" brass T with two plastic pieces, 3/8" barbed and 1/8" threaded. These fit directly the couplings for my AutoMeter boost gauge.

BTW, the 5 speed uses the plate that others have referenced as a point to make a pass through portal for the Clutch Slave Cylinder.

If I can find an adaptor to go from the 11/32" ID vacuum hose going to the Brake Booster to the small (1/8" 3/16"?) hard tubing, I think I can put it through one of the existing grommets without muchg problem.


2003 Onyx Green PT-GT
K&N Drop-In Air Filter
Kenwood Sirius Satellite Radio System
Garmin Street Pilot III Color GPS



Jumpin' Joe
Onyx Green GT
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 22 Apr 2003, 06:56 am
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Dalite,

I can't tell you if it is a Bleed hole or not. My controller don't have that hole, it is an older version.

Here is a quick test: connect a tube to the side port of the controller and blow into it. if air comes out of it it is indeed a bleed hole. My initial tests with this controller were bad because the absense of the bleed valve made the wastegate stay open after first boost. If you have a bleed hole in you controller, you would be able to make a better connection than the one I oroginaly posted.

Connect the bottom part of the boost controller directly to the turbo presure line ( remove the cream colored line on the right side of the turbo intake and connect the controller to this port on the turbo). connect the side exaust port of the controller on the waste gate fitting (the one were the orange line is conected). This setup will give you better response and lower boost spikes if you connect it as close as possible to the wastegate. but remember, this would only work if you have a bleed hole in order to get the presure out of the waste gate after the controller has closed.

Your question about vacume lines, Don't use the boost gauge line to connect the boost controlleror any of the rigid vacum lines sold in Pep Boys. If you have a smaller diameter line conected to the controller you will have larger and longer boost spikes!

Try to get the biggest line you can get.


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Old 22 Apr 2003, 11:24 am
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Ok I now have some more Vac/PSI Data with Hallman ES controller on using the least amount of tubing from controller exit to solenoid and boost side plugged right into cream colored tube.
Driving around town 25-45mph steady foot: 10-14 Hg (good mpg here)
Slight need to accelerate when passing 25-45mph gradually adding approx 30% more throttle: INSTANT 5-7 PSI (pshhhhhheeeee)
Getting on freeway from a stop(mash pedal): INSTANT 14 PSI with screechin tires then slowly drops to 12 and stays until I let off throttle at 65MPH.
Cruising on freeway 65MPH flat area(steady foot): 10-12Hg
Cruising on freeway 65MPH slight incline(throttle as needed): 4-8Hg
Passing on Freeway from 60MPH no downshift gradually adding approx 30%-40% throttle: hits 10-12PSI quick
Passing on Freeway from 65MPH w/downshift and WOT: INSTANT 14PSI just before downshift then drops to 8PSI and climbs right back to ~12PSI
Have driven almost 100 hard miles this way with no codes/knocking/pinging. I am running 91 octane mobil super.
I installed the controller yesterday at lunch and briefly tested various settings.
Controller wide open you get boost quick and with ALOT less throttle.
Controller tightened about 1/4 turn from open saw a 15PSI spike with it holding around 13-14PSI.
Controller tightened about 1/8 turn yielded the detailed results above.
The car has been transformed from an occasional little push during heavy acceleration to put you in the seat under less throttle.
I think I found the best daily drivability with the controller barely turned in from wide open, but then again my car was making very little boost before. Even WIDE OPEN just having that little gem in there gives you boost on demand. With no upper/lower airbox silencers and a K&N drop in filter you will hear that turbo alot, not obnoxious, but you'll now hear and feel what you payed for.

Two Words: Night/Day (go buy one!)

P.S. I zip tied mine right behind the solenoid to the solenoid bracket with the spigot facing the engine. Looks factory installed with the black tube running against the hood insulation back into the solenoid.

------------------------
2003 PTCruiser GT
Mods:!Airbox silencers
K&N Filter(2153)
Autometer Pod - Boost/Vac and Volts
Hallman ES Boost Controller running 12PSI steady 14PSI peak
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