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Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

 
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Old 28 Mar 2020, 03:54 pm
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Default Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

Would 1 inch wheel spacers affect my front end alignment?

I just finished putting the one inch hub centric wheels spacers on, and the front tires.
When I bedded-in the brakes, and got to the point of 55-60 mph...I had a lot of front end vibration felt through the Steering wheel.

Yes, I will be taking the fronts off again to be sure nothing came loose in the process.
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Old 28 Mar 2020, 07:53 pm
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Default Re: Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

Wheel spacers can effect the alignment and sometimes the balance.

First remove the spacers and road test.

Re-install the spacer and see if the vibration returns.

If vibration returns try swapping spacers.

If vibration returns then it is not likely a balance but more likely an alignment problem.

Then your best to get it checked.

There are DIY alignment ways that many track guys do but it is way to much to for me to type... LOL

But I think I posted on this forum once doing to my MINI...
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Old 29 Mar 2020, 01:20 am
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Default Re: Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

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Originally Posted by soonercruiser View Post
Would 1 inch wheel spacers affect my front end alignment?

I just finished putting the one inch hub centric wheels spacers on, and the front tires.
When I bedded-in the brakes, and got to the point of 55-60 mph...I had a lot of front end vibration felt through the Steering wheel.

Yes, I will be taking the fronts off again to be sure nothing came loose in the process.


25mm Spacers will exacerbate (theres a nice word!) any mis-alignment you already had.
Golden rule is *any* suspension or steering work needs an alignment afterwards, including changing wheel size. How many people do that? Not many.
PT's are neutral (by the book, 0,0 deg all round) so any toe out (or in) is wrong, so fairly easy to do a "by eye" check for any obvious toe in or out by looking down the side of the car at both rear and front wheels. If your "engineers eye" is good enough, you'll see anything thats wrong.

Loads of fun with string and axle stands can be had to do your own tracking, but it's a tad hit and miss. If I had your workshop, I'd make myself something that would do it really easy but I haven't so I won't bather describing it - maybe I'll draw it later and post it for you.

The other thing to watch with the system we have to use (H&R call it "DRM" - I dunno if you're using H&Rs or not) is that you need to be scrupulously clean between the disc/drum and the spacer, and the spacer and the wheel. If you aren't you'll get a built in wobble. Torquing the spacer to the hub *must* be even and 100%, and should be checked periodically - stud lock juice is always a good idea.

Over-torquing of the spacer to the hub can distort the spacer with DRM - there's not much ali round the mounting holes - but you'd have to have gone at it like a gorilla to do that.

All that said, because it's speed related, I'd be taking off the wheels to check I hadn't lost a balance weight off the wheel first, and then remounting each wheel 2 studs around from how it came off, just to see if it made a difference.

Did you put 25mm on the back as well? (I assume you did)
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Last edited by Sinbad; 29 Mar 2020 at 01:28 am.
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Old 29 Mar 2020, 09:52 am
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Default Re: Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

Thanks for the tips guys!

Yes, I spaced all 4 equally.
All torques are to 100#.

Can't take the spacers off the front and drive, as THAT is the reason I have them after installing the Wilwood Brakes - The wheel touches the new calipers.....only had a couple of paper thicknesses space even before hand.

My first try will be to disassemble and check everything, like the pads.
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Last edited by soonercruiser; 29 Mar 2020 at 04:38 pm.
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Old 29 Mar 2020, 11:12 am
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Default Re: Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

Frank, if you get something cheap and cheerful like this then glue it to a piece of (eg) 4 x 1 finished wood you'll be able to hang it on your rear wheel with long bungees (or even string) to keep it in place.
Make the level level, and across the centre of the hub of your wheel.

The rear wheels *should* be 0,0 unless you've got frame or suspension damage, with slightly different track width to the fronts.

Likewise, the fronts should also be 0,0 - therefore all you need to do is to check with a ruler / tape measure / your dick that both the forward rim and the back rim of your front wheel are equal distances from the lasers beam.

Remember to park the front wheels on greasepaper (see wife) or a puddle of washing up liquid to "unstress" the tyres and wheels and centre the steeering wheel.

This is quick and dirty and doesn't replace a proper geometry check, and it's accurate to maybe 1 degree at best, but it will tell you if there's something wrong that your eye cant see.

To be honest, if you get both sides within half a degree either way of dead straight (0,0) by doing this, you're probably as accurate as the average monkey in a "tyre place" will be with 10,000$ of kit he doesn't really understand, and you really won't be doing badly. Tracking is good to have right, but it isn't quite as "Oh my God!" critical to have it a tiny bit out as is often said.

I don't think you have a tracking problem, honestly. But checking never hurt.
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Old 29 Mar 2020, 11:34 am
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Default Re: Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

You know I believe frank has lowered his PT.. this must be taken into account when trying "only" to achieve factory alignment settings which in the real world and driving condition are never the optimum.

When any PT Cruiser is lowered it will change the steering geometry which CAN NOT be corrected and could contribute possibly regarding a PT to a vibration at high speeds. But I don't think after reading his last response that the aliment is Franks problem.

BTW.... Nice find on the suggested DIY tool
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Last edited by NitroPT; 29 Mar 2020 at 11:36 am.
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Old 29 Mar 2020, 12:10 pm
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Default Re: Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

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Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
You know I believe frank has lowered his PT.. this must be taken into account when trying "only" to achieve factory alignment settings which in the real world and driving condition are never the optimum.

When any PT Cruiser is lowered it will change the steering geometry which CAN NOT be corrected and could contribute possibly regarding a PT to a vibration at high speeds. But I don't think after reading his last response that the aliment is Franks problem.

BTW.... Nice find on the suggested DIY tool

You're right, lowering changes the geometry - in particular camber goes out the window if I remember rightly - but I would *hope* () Frank has had an alignment check since dropping it.

Like you, I'd be surprised if this is alignment related.

The laser thing I put together myself with a laser level i bought in Aldi for 9
After using the "string n axle stands" method before now, it seemed a no brainer to pretty much ape what a workshop machine does in a (very) low tech fashion.
It works, within the limits of what it is, and is a lot more user friendly than tripping over string
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Old 29 Mar 2020, 04:42 pm
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Red face Re: Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

Yes...after lowering...
Installed a camber kit and had her aligned!
Been Perfect...UNTIL and then THESE WHEEL SPACERS.


Will likely solve this tomorrow.
As for now, I'll look up who I have my lifetime alignment warranty with.
(watch it be my fav dealer 45 miles away!)
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Old 29 Mar 2020, 06:59 pm
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Default Re: Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

Hers the funny thing....a good experienced alignment technician will talk with you about how you drive and if you would like some changes made tailored to how you drive your PT.

The Factory specifications are not written in stone that if you stray from them hell will rain down on you and your car! lol


At this point I am doubtful now it is the alignment causing the problem.

Not regarding the current problem but correcting some to understand my posted information that is to clarify I said STEERING GEOMETRY...... there is a difference in adding the camber adjusting bolts which WILL NOT change and correct the steering geometry from lowering a car. But I wouldn't worry because I do not think frank will be doing slalom racing anytime soon with the PT ?
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Last edited by NitroPT; 29 Mar 2020 at 07:07 pm.
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Old 29 Mar 2020, 08:33 pm
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Default Re: Wheels Spacers and Front End Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
Hers the funny thing....a good experienced alignment technician will talk with you about how you drive and if you would like some changes made tailored to how you drive your PT.

But I wouldn't worry because I do not think frank will be doing slalom racing anytime soon with the PT ?

SAYS WHO????



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