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Cranks but no start

 
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02 Sep 2019, 01:05 pm
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Default Re: Cranks but no start

Thanks PTGT03,

I pulled the TIPM and checked the voltage at the bottom of the module where the blue/orange wire and had only 11VDC. When I go back to the pump connector it is 10.98VDC. My battery positive to the ground stud on the LH fender is 12.5VDC.

On the Brown wire at C2 PIN4 I only have 10VDC.

I have read that the fuel pump relay is located inside the PCM. How can I replace that? It looks to be a sealed case on a aluminum heat sink. Is there a way to open the PCM and identify the fuel pump relay? It is still mounted on the firewall I have not done anything with it yet.

If anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate it.

Thank you
Scott
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02 Sep 2019, 01:41 pm
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Default Re: Cranks but no start

if you can isolate the problem of voltage drops coming through the TIPM, there's a breakdown internal to this module and just replace it.

I recently did two TIPM replacements on a pair of 2011 RAM 3500s used in the fleet where I work. after about 160,000 miles with regular driving all these modules start to break down in some way and it's a common failure point.

As for your fuel pump relay question, I'm not sure about the newer model PTs. But I know that mid-year in the production of the 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe the engineers decided to remove the fuel pump relay from the integrated relay and fuse box and install a separate fuel pump control module located next to the fuel tank.

If you can find out how to jumper full voltage to your fuel pump and measure fuel rail pressure and it is within specification, you just determined that's the problem.
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Last edited by _PTGT03; 02 Sep 2019 at 01:43 pm.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02 Sep 2019, 02:42 pm
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Default Re: Cranks but no start

There is no relay in the 2G cars 2006-20010.

Quote:
This vehicle is not equipped with a fuel pump relay. The fuel pump control is done through the TIPM. The TIPM receives an input signal from the PCM. Once the TIPM receives the signal, it will output a 12 volt supply to the fuel pump module turning the pump on.
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Old 02 Sep 2019, 03:20 pm
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Default Re: Cranks but no start

Thanks PTGT03 and LionPT

I went back out to the car and ran a clip jumper from the bolt on the Ground Bolt to the LH inner fender to my meter.

While holding my probe on the PIN4 if I turn on/off - crank my voltage varies from 10.8 to 12.5.

On Pin1 by accident I still had my meter set for VDC and probed PIN1 and found 7-8VDC.

If I am understanding how this works the PCM has the relay and the voltage passes thru the TIPM.

It is also my understanding that the PCM has the Auto Shut Down relay in it that is responsible for the Ground connections.

From what I am seeing and what I think I know it seems to me that maybe the PCM is allowing voltage back on the PIN1 thru the ASD?

Depending on which on/off I get between 10.8 and 12.5VDC would indicate the relay for the fuel pump.

If my understanding of the ASD and the Fuel Pump relay are in the PCM being true I am thinking I should replace the PCM?

Your thoughts?

Thanks
Scott
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02 Sep 2019, 07:27 pm
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Default Re: Cranks but no start

Quote:
Originally Posted by LionPT View Post
There is no relay in the 2G cars 2006-20010.
Now this makes the situation really simple to troubleshoot.
Use a needle pin and backprobe the PCM output wire for the fuel pump control input to the TIPM. No voltage, replace PCM
If there is voltage, check for fuelpump output signal FROM the TIPM. yes = replace fuel pump
no= replace TIPM
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Old 02 Sep 2019, 08:41 pm
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Default Re: Cranks but no start

I have 10VDC at the TIPM connector 2 PIN4 - I believe this is power from the PCM.

I have 10 to 12VDC at the TIPM Connector 7 on the blue/or wire ( I forget the PIN number now).

The funny thing to me is, I have at least 10VDC at the fuel pump and resistance thru the pump motor but no output.

ON the wire drawing there is a point marked S320 that is on the ground side of the motor before the ground but I donít see in anything I have found so far what S320 is.

With voltage at the pump and the TIPM I feel like it is something in the ground path but it looks like the harness is going back to the PCM with the feedback signal for the fuel level. Is the Ground path switched in the PCM?

Also I have 10VDC at Pin1 at the pump harness with the key off ??? I should not have voltage there unless the key is on correct?

I think the PCM is holding the voltage on PIN1 and not completing the ground path.

I wanted to run a jumper from the LH inner fender to the fuel pump to see if It would run if I gave it a good ground but we had a storm come up and it ran me off.

I will do that tomorrow after work and see if I can ID the wire at the PCM. I am not sure how the plugs are referenced yet. They are color coded but I donít see ID numbers like C1 C2 C3 ect...


Thank you again for your help
Scott
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02 Sep 2019, 09:49 pm
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Default Re: Cranks but no start

Dunno if it helps...

There are a few posts of the forum about bad pump grounds...
If you tap into the pump ground above the fuel tank to a new ground, it seems to fix the problem.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03 Sep 2019, 04:57 pm
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Default Re: Cranks but no start

Thanks LionPT,

I made a jumper wire to go from batter + to the body side bolt where the - wire are hooked up and probed PIN 1 & 4 and my pump took off.

I then was able to push a wire in the back of the connector for PIN1 with it hooked up and connected to the body - bolt and used the key and the pump came on. When I turn the key off the pump goes off.

I made the connection at PIN1 better and sanded off the under body and put a 3/16Ē rivet into the body thru an electrical connector. This tested good as well.

I am going to use a sealer to make sure the connection stays good.



I still do not understand the various voltages I was seeing. But I am past it for now I think.

Thank you to everyone for suggestions along the way.
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