Possibly dumb turbo manifold question

[kudah440]

So, growing up building Mopar musclecars, there was a very standard process.
Step 1: purchase Barracuda, Challenger, Duster, Satellite etc..
Step 2: stop at parts store one the way home and buy Hedman or Hooker headers...
Step 3: install headers BEFORE exhaust even cools.

Standard operating procedure, but why aren't headers even remotely involved in building a turbo PT for instance.
I understand the exhaust flow will have different circumstances.... But wouldn't free flowing, mandrel bent headers still improve things?
I dunno, it was threatening to rain so I quit working on the PT and I'm in the bar contemplating my next mods when this idea infested my spongy idea-maker....🤔🤔🤔

[Handy_Cruiser]

On the turbo PT, the exhaust manifold is integrated with the turbocharger. It's called a "turbofold".



To use a custom exhaust manifold you have to adopt the setup with a "log" exhaust manifold and a turbo with it's own exhaust housing. Chris has one of these on his PT. It also requires the use of a SRT4 style intake manifold and custom intercooler pipes. It's a pretty considerable mod on a PT but opens up the door to additional performance mods like like Chris has.



Here's what the exhaust manifolds look like for this:




And here's a header design. There's several to choose from:

[kudah440]

But that seems like it would be a first mod from my point of view, but it seems that people don't see it that way. Why doesn't Hooker have these all over the place, if I fit an 440 RB big block in my little A-body barracuda that was never intended to have a big block with off the shelf conversion headers you know they can build one to give the advantage of free flowing, equal length runner tubes that still allow you to close the hood... But the products aren't there, and people don't seem willing to go through the effort.
Just just strange coming from my background where improve exhaust flow, then improve intake flow, cam, heads, converter, gears then make them all love each other and work together... Seems completely opposite to how it things are done now.
Just silly musings though...

[_PTGT03]

Originally Posted by kudah440

But that seems like it would be a first mod from my point of view, but it seems that people don't see it that way. Why doesn't Hooker have these all over the place, if I fit an 440 RB big block in my little A-body barracuda that was never intended to have a big block with off the shelf conversion headers you know they can build one to give the advantage of free flowing, equal length runner heads that still allow you to close the hood... But the products aren't there, and people don't seem willing to go through the effort.
Just just strange coming from my background where improve exhaust flow, then improve intake flow, cam, heads, converter, gears then make them all love each other and work together... Seems completely opposite to how it things are done now.
Just silly musings though...

forced induction engines don't need to go to the lengths of expensively produced tubular manifolds because any power loss due to drag can be made up with more flow and turbo pressure. cast iron exhaust manifolds retain heat energy more effectively than tube headers, leading to hotter gasses which expand and spin the turbo faster.

[Handy_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by kudah440

But that seems like it would be a first mod from my point of view, but it seems that people don't see it that way. Why doesn't Hooker have these all over the place, if I fit an 440 RB big block in my little A-body barracuda that was never intended to have a big block with off the shelf conversion headers you know they can build one to give the advantage of free flowing, equal length runner heads that still allow you to close the hood... But the products aren't there, and people don't seem willing to go through the effort.
Just just strange coming from my background where improve exhaust flow, then improve intake flow, cam, heads, converter, gears then make them all love each other and work together... Seems completely opposite to how it things are done now.
Just silly musings though...

On an American V8 car, headers are relatively cheap and pretty well bolt-on. And there's often a decent payoff in power and/or sound. That's not really the case with a turbo PT Cruiser.

If you look back through the older posts on this forum, you will see that back in the day, many of the more serious racers and hotrodders did convert to a setup like Chris has. It just makes more sense for other modifications. But this is a pretty expensive upfront cost. Over the last ten years or so, the PT has become more of a low-cost play car and/or just cheap transportation. Many current owners, including most of the hotrodders, just don't want to spend that kind of money on them.

[kudah440]

Aahhh...I completely get the flow part and forced flow part, and thats what I was generally basing my thoughts on. My experience I remember going to ridiculous efforts for and tiny scrap of .00Xth of a second...but I never thought about the heat retention aspect of it.
You would think with as much skin I've left on the headers over the years, that would be a first thought.
That 440 'Cuda is notorious for it, she's got Schumaker creative services chrome coated conversion headers (theres even a couple pics of my 'Cuda in the customer cars section), and funny thing about the chrome headers, it just straight burns the skin directly onto the chrome unlike painted ones where you just tend to get the burn part.

Originally Posted by _PTGT03

forced induction engines don't need to go to the lengths of expensively produced tubular manifolds because any power loss due to drag can be made up with more flow and turbo pressure. cast iron exhaust manifolds retain heat energy more effectively than tube headers, leading to hotter gasses which expand and spin the turbo faster.

[kudah440]

But now that I see some....those are puuuurty...me likey

Makes me want to go mock-up some header designs for twin turbo on the wifes Duster...OH' or even the future project Dodge Scamp. "The TT SuperScamp". Oh no, the project is named, now its a thing. But Im liking this idea.
And I was just going to go out to my Zombie Apocalypse shelter and reload a couple hundred 9mm rounds to relax. lol

And here's a header design. There's several to choose from: