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MBC location and ECU probs

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12 Jun 2003, 10:36 pm
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Default MBC location and ECU probs

I think I have figured out the reason some of you that tried to change over to ED's placement of the boost controler have found the turbo not as responsive. After changing mine over it makes sence being closer to the waste gate that this set up should be faster spooling.(It is) after having to crank mine quite a few more turns to get the boost back up it's starting to sound like it before but it does not jump up and go like it did. This is because in the other location your boost guages are not right they are reading way to low.This is being caused by over boosting being hidden by the SVG and waste gate dumping like crazy this explains the jumps in boost you are not getting an accurate gauge reading being the gauge reads almost a sec behind the true boost. That is why you will notice with the stock confige with no controller 10PSI is no where close to after the MBC install 10 PSI pushes you into the seat. The horse power and torque is the same. This is because 10 PSI is higher than the gauges is showing. When the Surge/BOV and waste gate is dumping pressure it like reading tire pressure with a big hole in one side letting air out.This is what is causing all the codes showing up and the injecters to shut down and detonation even with 94 octain. Also this is why Hector has seen horse power losses the engine is leaning out. So you guys running off the #2 tree are super over boosting your PT. Even I thought that for the price of a MBC it sure had more jam that I have seen in any other turbo car. Now in the right spot it seems in line for the price.

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Old 13 Jun 2003, 12:58 am
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by PETEY_CRUISER

So you guys running off the #2 tree are super over boosting your PT.
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Don't agree with that statement at all, When I tried the MBC directly to the WGA, anything above 10psi and it would hesitate like it was hitting fuel cut. The turbo would also Scream loudly for what I thought was way too long. Seamed like with the MBC directly connected to the WGA I was "super over boosting". In my opinion the car runs much smoother on the #2 selenoid.

-=Matt=-
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Old 13 Jun 2003, 01:27 am
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I Have two gauges on the PT, one Mecanical and one digital. both of them read exacly the same thing. I have never gotten the "check engine" light on or the Famous code. Not with the Hallman nor with the A'PEXi. I had the hallman connected to the #2 solenoid and the A'PEXi completly bypasing the factory system. I "T" from the forward turbo fitting and to the Wastegate using less than two feet of 1/4' id line

Ian
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Old 13 Jun 2003, 06:18 am
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I respectfully disagree with the idea that using a MBC in the #2 tree is causing anyone to overboost their PT. I have my boost gauge connected thru the port on the top of the throttlebody so that I read the vac/boost at the intake manifold level. You cannot get a better (more accurate) indication of the boost that the intake sees than capturing the readings there or at the back of the intake manifold (Brake Booster line). By installing the MBC on the pressure side of the WGA solenoid, you still enable the waste gate actuation and SVA actuation to work as the factory intended. All you are doing is altering the amount of boost pressure that the WGA sees from the turbocharger. When you cap off the pressure side of the WGA and connect the MBC to the WG itself From pressure side of the turbocharger you change the whole dynamic of the actual waste gate operation. This is why you need to readjust the MBC when it is installed there. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. I have installed the HKs SSBOV between the throttlebody and the intercooler. I run the vacum signal from the throttlebody also. I can watch my boost gauge and even @ 1 psi boost when closing the throttlebody the BOV pops off. I have installed a check valve in the Surge valve line so that its operation is basically negated (BOV takes its place). I do get a about a 2 lb surge (which I have accounted for w/MBC adjustment). So there is no way that the SVA is dumping boost, and even if it was that is what it is supposed to do. Any waste gate actuation works two ways, it controlls the boost (output) by regulating the amount of push being provided by exhaust (input). It also acts as a saftey for the turbocharger on case of severe overboost. I am currently running 13.5 second stage boost and 7.5 first stage boost. I do not get any codes, the BOV works as advertised and the performance is excellent. I get no detonation, no high rpm miss or any other symptom that I have read about on this forum. I am running the AMX Turbo up intake, and a tuned dual exhaust setup from scottsdale. I have installed 10MM Magnecor racing Plug Wires, and a High output Screamin Deamon Coil. My plugs are gapped @ .040 (still using the original Champions).

I have a hard time believing that I am overboosting when the pressure I read at the throttlebody doesn't tell me so. I feel better regulating the input to the WGA solenoid because that (regulated) signal that is distributed throughout the saftey & performance circuits (ECU etc.) via sensor.

Do I think that there is a problem w/ the MBC installed between the WG and the pressure side of the Turbo ? No I don't. I am just more comfortable with regulating the input to the WGA and letting the rest of the system work as it was designed to.

It may be a disservice to say that anyone who has the MBC on the #2 tree is overboosting their PT. I have seen absloutley no indication of this on my PT and I have been running the TurboXs HPDSBC for 2 months now. I like the fact that controlling WGA input boost signal leaves the rest of the system in tact. This way ANY overboost (reported from a vacum line on the intercooler pipe about 12 inches from where my vac/boost gauge signal is derrived) is handled through the system in a normal fashion.

It is possible that better performance can be gained by connecting the MBC directly, and thats OK, Its just not for me.

Alan
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Old 14 Jun 2003, 09:13 pm
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Quote:
quote:[Don't agree with that statement at all, When I tried the MBC directly to the WGA, anything above 10psi and it would hesitate like it was hitting fuel cut. The turbo would also Scream loudly for what I thought was way too long. Seamed like with the MBC directly connected to the WGA I was "super over boosting". In my opinion the car runs much smoother on the #2 selenoid.

Chipmonk buddy whatsu p!?

K here is the low down. The car boost better the way I described, by not hooking up inline with #2. What you are experiencing at 10psi is the surge valve opening up. ECU is bugging out wondering why it cant control boost so it opens the surge valve by removing positive pressure from the line that goes to the surge valve. The stock spring in the surge valve is set at 10psi so when the boost goes above 10, the surge valve works as a pop-off valve(safty valve) so you dont go above 10psi.

I had this issue on one srt with 1100 miles, yet not on mine. The ECU wanted to play ruff and did not let me boost up to 15 so I placed a check valve inline with the surge valve and wala, I had the horse by the reins! I think the ecm dates have something to do with it?

You can also connect your stock surge valve directly to the intake manifold and it will then function like a regular BOV, the ecu would mind its own buisness when configured like this. THen we can all be happy and end your post with a

"Happy Boostin!"
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Old 15 Jun 2003, 12:57 am
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I believe that hector is right here. (but my MBC is still connected to the #2 Solenoid tree) Today I added a vacum/boost port to my throttlebody plenum, and connected it directly to the surge valve assy. It does not let the surge valve fight for control of the boost. Set up this way you can get a feel for the waste gate pulsation at higher boost. I will need to try the spring mod on the waste gate. However, since I know what it is and where it is comming from, and the fact that it has very little effect on performance I'm not overly concerned about it. Hector, thanks for the help on this issue. BTW I have been looking for a convenient place for the stage 2 boost switch. Think I found it. Installed a Roll control (Hurst shifter products) switch on the shifter shaft. It is a push button -normally open momentary switch. Put the sw in parallel w the Jet fighter switch. Can use either to actuate stage 2 boost. Shifter mounted switch needs to be held to keep stage 2 active, but thats what I was looking for. Installed a blue security scanner as a stage 2 boost indicator. This seems to work well, but the console was a pain in the a$$ to take apart for routing the wires.

[?]

Alan
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Old 15 Jun 2003, 04:40 pm
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Alan, that pulsatin you feel is the POS WG we have. Once you do my spring mod, you will notice no more oscillation of the boost when you get on it. You will also hold more boost up to redline.
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Old 24 Oct 2015, 05:52 pm
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Default Re: MBC location and ECU probs

New to this forum old topic researched all pt forums registered to all of them old topic but I'm new to my pt, #2 sylonoid mbc hooked up before as Ian said have problems need help don't yell at me.
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Old 24 Oct 2015, 06:34 pm
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Default Re: MBC location and ECU probs

This is old school info here. Grab a handheld tuner that is compatible with your model pt and pitch the MBC. Make sure your car is in excellent working condition. Check and fix any boost leaks and load the generic tune onto your pcm. Then you can play around with the adjustable parameters if you need to.
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Old 24 Oct 2015, 08:41 pm
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Default Re: MBC location and ECU probs

07 pt limited turbo or turbo lite manufacturer date 09/06 which means Diablo in tune would work also talked to Sykes performance about new hand held unit bother are 399.00 both would work also located a 04 gt vin# called dealer can order and would be able to flash my self me being a dealer technician so I cold get Diablo trinity which only works on gts but wanted to see if I could go a cheaper route because my takes all my money but I'll gust grow a pair and bye a tuner I'll deal with getting yelled at bye driving real fast awat from her ib my nicely tuned cruiser thanks still want to use a boost controller because I am I guy and can never go to fast
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